Rock concert costs taxpayers $400,000 TERESA WRIGHT The Guardian
The promoters of the rock show starring Alanis Morissette put their hands in taxpayers’ pockets and took out $400,000 to pay for a concert they apparently tried to back out of at the last minute.
In the legislature Thursday, Opposition MLA Mike Currie questioned Tourism Minister Valerie Docherty about the September concert in Alexandra, which attracted less than a third of the expected crowd. Docherty admitted the promoters came to the department in the final hour saying they wanted to cancel the concert due to poor ticket sales.
“I do believe there was a discussion the day before the concert was to be held,’’ Docherty said.
But it would have been devastating to any future concerts on P.E.I. if they had cancelled at that late date, she said.
“The artists themselves were paid for, the equipment to host the site was paid for, everything was paid for that they needed to host it,’’ she said. “For P.E.I. to back down on an advertised concert whether or not we sold the 3,000 or the 10,000 tickets we intended, it would probably be the last time P.E.I. would host a concert again.’’
Government gave a total of $500,000 to promoters Conference and Events Management to stage the all-day rock concert at Vista Bay on Sept. 13.
The first $100,000 was a given as a non-repayable grant, and the other $400,000 was a 45-day term loan granted by the province to help promoters pay up-front costs to the acts. The promoters have since paid back $100,000, but recently informed the province they will not be able to pay back the outstanding $300,000.
It was also uncovered in this same line of questioning in the house that the $400,000 loan was actually given through P.E.I. Business Development Inc. (BDI) and was provided without requiring any personal guarantees. It didn’t go through Treasury Board and wasn’t approved by the proper channels.
However, the losses will be covered by the Department of Tourism, Docherty said.
Despite the bad publicity her department has received over the failed concert, Docherty makes no apologies.
“We learned a lot of lessons for having this particular concert, but at the end of the day my role is to work with the industry to try to do what we can to increase numbers,’’ she said.
And the concert did generate economic activity through taxi fares, restaurants and hotel bookings, she added.
“At the end of the day we still generated about $800,000 return to the province. That’s $800,000 we didn’t have otherwise.’’
This figure comes from preliminary reports provided to the department by the promoters, Docherty said.
But Currie remains highly critical of the whole deal.
“They don’t seem to be in any rush to go after (the promoters) for the money. They’re just relieving them of that responsibility,’’ Currie said.
“I think that was a deal done in haste when they knew they were in a bad situation.’’
Docherty said a policy is being developed by the department to set out clear guidelines for future concert investments.
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JD from PE writes: This Minister has to go.
Her Comments about PEI never hosting another event go to show how little she knows about anything.
Funny how Halifax backed out of hosting the Commonwealth Games and it hasn't hurt their reputation. Somehow I expect the Commonwealth Games are quite a bit larger than a Alanis Morrisette Concert.
It is time someone in this Government came clean about this $400 Grand in taxpayers dollars. Where did it Go? Just why was the Concert promoters given it in the first place? Who approved it? Did the Premier know about this?
This Minister really has much explaining to do to the people of PEI.
$400 Grand to fund what an event for 3000 people. Someone got rich of this event at the cost of taxpayers.
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Loda Bull from Charlottetown, PEI writes: Val bolted on two sure things this summer and tossed a half a mil into this!
If anyone for a minute belives the spin that they learned something, I'll sell you the confederation bridge.
I think this government are simply playing puppets to Tourism Charlottetown and the city.
What ever the city wants, it gets. It gets a large handout for festival of fights and now I hear the wine and beer party netted them another 250,000.
Now look at who promoted Alanis's concert and where they are located.
Something stinks bad.
I bet the same bull will happen next year.
I think the minister should resign, Tourism Charlottetown get a house cleaning and that Events lot never see another dime of government money.
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Come from On writes: Do you really expect us to belive that this concert with 1200 paid guests garnered $800,000?
Another lie....fire you all!
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Kaodake from PEI writes: If everything had already been paid for, why would the promoters want to back out the day before? And what would they need $400 000 dollars for at that point?
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Amazed from PEI writes: No guarantee, no proper channel...why? I think the application process needs to be reviewed in a BIG way.
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BOB DOLE from PEI writes: That's what happens when you bring in 3rd rate acts.
you need to bring acts that appeal to the masses.
look at how well the ticket sales are for the festival of lights.
rock concerts sell tickets. not lounge acts.
and I'm so sick of everyone complaining about the concerts aimed at the younger crowd. where were all the complainers when they needed ticket sales for this suck filled show?
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Peter from Charlottetown, PEI writes: I'm sorry, but there is no way in h*** that the province earned 800 thousand in spin-offs from this concert. I work on the ferry and know that for the mostpart it was kids going to this concert.(ie. late teens to early twenties; college!) If you want me to believe that there was 3 thousand patrons there, then you do the math. They would have been spending more than $2500.00 each. Thaese are college kids with little or no money to spend.Give me a break Valerie!
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Laughing from PEI writes: So let me see if I got this right. We gave the organizers 400k, with no personal guarantees for repayment, no approval in accordance with their (government's) own policies, no consultations with subject matter expert and no solid business plan all so the (so called) Minister could save face for not supporting earlier events. Events that, I'm sure, would of drawn a lot more than a couple thousand fans. However, like a true politician she trys to put a positive spin on the event. We learned a lot of lessons .... This seem to be one heck of a high price to pay for learning a lesson. My suggestion to the minister, go to UPEI and take a Business 101 course. You can learn a lot of lessons there and it won't cost the province 400k....Premier Ghiz, please try to get your ministers under control. We can't afford much more of this.
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Don't believe the Hype from PE writes: To re-work a line from the Simpson's, 'God help Valerie Docherty, She's just not that bright'
The promoter's say there was about $800K in spinnof to the economy that would not have been there without this concert. Only if you count the $500K that gov't contributed. With 300 tickets sold, there is no way the average per person spent on accomadations, food, taxis, ect was $267 dollars. Most concert goers were locals.
Let's talk about the promoter, Conference and Events Management. The are located in Charlottetown. I wonder how many big concerts they have done? I wonder how many concerts at all they have done? The don't even have a website! You pay me $500K, I'll make sure I at least have a website stating what I had done.
The loan didn't go through proper channels! The fact that this no longer surprises me is the sad part. And Docherty said the losses will be covered by the Tourism Dept. Hey Valerie, guess where gov't departments get their money. TAXPAYERS!
Here is some savings on policy to promote future concerts. Hire a real promoter. At least 1 real major concert under their belts. Don't care if it is Carver or not, but they must have done large concerts before, at least with 8000 ticket SALES, not give aways. Hint number 2, Valerie Doherty should have absolutly nothing to do with it. She has proven she can't be trusted to handle it. As well, Loans should be tied to the current popularity of the act. A band that hasn't sold out big concerts for several years should not require a loan of 1/2 million dollars. An example, if you bring in AC/DC, then providing $500K is not a bad investment. If you bring in Aqua to sing their hit Barbie Girl, give them $25 and a 20% discount on the mini bar in the hotel they are paying to stay at.
Hopefully the right thing happens here and Valerie finds herself much closer to the back of the room before too long.
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Wow from PEI writes: It will cost my daughter about 25m and 4 years to get a university degree. But it cost the tourism dept 400 m for a lot of lessons ? Who's running that department? And isn't the promoter behind this the same one who ran Tour De PEI cycling?
Wasn't that event successful? Why can't the promoter pay with money earned from the cycling event? Fishy Fishy Fishy
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Chester Field from pei writes: First of all, who in their right mind would think that Alanis Morissette could attract anymore than 2 or 3000 people to a concert, maybe back in her heyday she could of attracted 10,000 people but not today. The venue is a good one, but it should be used for somebody like Springsteen, ACDC, The Eagles and the likes, it would be sold out in days. I think that the Gov't and their buddies should stay out of the concert business and let the pro's handle it. Oh, and by the way, Tourism money is taxpayers money.
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old vimy resident from saint John, nb writes: like Minister Docherty said ...it would be the last time PEI would host a concert again. Sounds like not a bad idea she has there
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Fed Up from P.E.I. writes: After reading your article about David Carver and the followup article with the minister trying to take the high road, it all comes out in the true cost of this loser concert comes out. No matter which way you spin it Valerie, your department blew it. Its obvious that the department thought they could bring off a concert on their own, not using a professional and hopefully saving money! Its not going to happen!! The minister needs to stick with the professionals and get out of the way.
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ben barr from cornwall, pei writes: sometimes the rush to copy other places for the all mighty dollar just doesn't make any sense.
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Quiet Observer from Charlottetown, PEI writes: Who is Docherty think she's fooling. cancelling the concert only would have made it tough for her department to book another concert. This is what happens when people who don't know what they're doing get in to puttingt on concerts. Her department messed up the opportunities to get some major acts like van halen here and in desperation to try to not appear as inept as they are, they supported the Morrissette concert, which wasa doomed before it started.
It doesn't matter whether they cancelled the concert or had a major flop, this still would not affect the ability of a professional like david carver, who knows what he is doing, from putting on a another successful concert.
On top of this, we find out that the Liberals are no better than the Tories at back room deals that avoid the governments own rules.
Docherty should be removed from her position. She obviously in over her head.
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wow from PEI writes: paying taxpayers money on trash like this when it could have been better spent on road salt, bridges, low income and seniors, tim hortons, etc.. and on top of that, they pay celebratty kids to come here on vacation.. time for a dept revamp.. something NEEDS TO CHANGE.... ASAP!
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Anna Lee MacDonald from West Point, PEI writes: The province has just cleared it for insulin dependant diabetic to be allowed only 3 free test strips a day. Most insulin dependant diabetics test 5 times.
I wonder how many test strips could be bought for $400,000?
Should she apologize? NO............she should be replaced!
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yeah...right from PEI writes: Well....an unsecured loan via the BDI, an end run around Treasury Board to flush taxpayer's money down the bowl without going through proper channels.
Where do I sign up for this treatment ?
Don't fear monger Olive...remember Wes' words of wisdom and keep singing... don't worry be happy
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John from pei writes: Maybe a bit of advertising more than a week or two in advance would boost ticket sales...Great location, terrible promotion.
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Snow Man from Ont writes: Get with, it you people.
Rock Concerts are not your thing.
SNOW IS. !!!!!!
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Stay out of it! from pei writes: Why in our society is it the Government''s job to to front the money? All these business that make the money, should be spending the money to attract business. Is that not Business 101 ?? Promote YOUR porduct or service!! Spend YOUR money, not the taxpayers money that could go to health or education or whatnot that benefits the whole province!!! Not just a few of the businesses.
This generation is ALWAYS waiting for the government to do the work. If you have a business, DO YOUR OWN WORK!! WITH YOUR MONEY!!
Last time I checked that's the gamble of owing your own business.
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Head Shaker from PE writes: Ministers are the talking heads for departments, but they don't run the place.
Deputy Ministers generally rule. Why do I get an image of Sir Humphrey Appleby?
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Scott from PEI writes: I and many, probably the majority of people, think Our Government spends Our Tax Dollars way too frivolously without accountability. Do you know what? We let them do it, over and over again. It does not matter which political party is in. The spending will continue. Grants and loans for multi-billion dollar companies and little companies that will likely not succeed.
Nothing will ever change unless the people of PEI and Canada actually do something about it. We are too complacent. We are Canadians. We've turned our cheeks so many times. We would rather get bent-over then make waves. It seems collectively we do not have a backbone among us.
Everybody complains about the rogue spending and bad investments, but nobody does anything about it. It seems most people think the Government are our babysitters (us being the babies).
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Don from Quebec writes: If the province is interested I got some swamp land in Darfur for sale ... Let it go for only a few hundred thousand!
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Islander from Charlottetown, PEI writes: A lot of people like playing concert promoter around here. Problem is that only one seems to have it figured out.
If we do the math it looks like 750,000 was spent on Alanis and Fall Flavors. That is the same number Dave Carver was looking for right?? That was for the Eagles, VanHalen or Springsteen. Anyone with a brain would see that any of those three would bring in tons more than a food and wine festival and a has-been show run by people who didn't have a clue.
I don't think it's all that hard to figure out why the province pulled this one and a poster here has it nailed in my opinion.
I think the province and their biggest city lobby group wanted to cash in on what Dave Carver built and cut him out. That and the obvious dislike by the minister to Carver sure looks like they were trying to say they could do it themselves.
We all know how that turned out.
If I were Dave Carver I'd be laughing my back end off. I'd also be in Halifax or Moncton where I'd still be supported and make twice the money.
If the province wants to make this right, move the minister to the back benches where she belongs and when another REAL concert promoter comes along, treat them right. We cannot afford the kiddie games in our economy. Too many tourism businesses will close and the it's too late.
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Head Shaker from pe writes: Of course it was going to lose money. That's why the government was involved.
If a concert actually made a profit, private business would be doing it.
But Island businesses don't like to take a risk. They, therefore, don't get the rewards of risk. This leaves the government to try to do things that produce side benefits for businesses, so they don't have to do anything. Then they complain that the benefits, of their not doing anything, isn't enough and it is the government's fault that they didn't get more of a benefit of not doing anything.
If concert promotion is so easy, why doesn't some private business borrow some money, hire this big promoter, and use the proceeds to pay back the loan and keep the profit. That is what other places do, but not PEI. We'd rather have someone else assume the risk, and then mock how stupid they were to do it.
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little e from montague, pei writes: Said it before and I'll say it again - this little island is in one awful mess.
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No way from Charlottetown, PEI writes: Disgusting! Does the government not realize what could be done with $400,000 of taxpayer's money? - How about giving it to the city of Charlottetown - they could hire an extra 10 police officers for one whole year. Tthese officers could catch drunk drivers, do foot patrols, etc. There are probably a thousand other useful and appropriate things you could do with this amount of money.
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JP from PE writes: While I never agreed with government throwing money into this concert, I have to agree with the Minister that cancelling it a day or two before hand would have been a mistake. Then everyone has already been paid and you have to refund what ticket sales you did make.
With regards to the Minister's comments about learning important lessons: I certainly hope so. They were some expensive lessons.
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JD from PE writes: This Minister could be mis-leading the public or worse...I won't say the L word.
Imagine her actually believing that 3,000 people generated $800,000 in spin offs.
Well who ever told her this must be in the used car business.
Imagine if 3000 people many of whom were FREE TICKETS and Islanders to boot could generate that kind of spinoff. If that is the case than one of Carver's Events could pay off the Islands entire debt and even Give Sheridan a surplus.
It is certainly time for a Cabinet Shuffle before she has another chance to have another concert and cost US..The Taxpayers another half Million.
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Enough from PE writes: To say that Valerie is over her head is an understatement. It is too bad as I am sure her intentions were good at the onset. Please find a replacement before she wastes any more of OUR hard earned money.
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Matt from Charlottetown, PEI writes: Here is one more example showing that the government should say out of private business. This will go away in a month and then the government will mess up again, they do not learn from their mistakes. They are no better then the last government was. I wish someone would run that would not keep messing up for PEI. With people like this in charge there is no wonder we are the poorest province in Canada.
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absurd from PE writes: It is absurd that the public puts up with this. Governments are relentless in pursuing trivial unpaid parking tickets, yet we sit back and let them rip the public off.
it is criminal to let taxpayers -- actually no -- to FORCE taxpayers to dish this out! Why aren't those that make the bad calls accountable? Losing their job is not even enough! What right did they have to take my money, however small a fraction on an individual basis for this non-sense when I pay the taxes and don't get the goods, such as a family doctor.
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Jeremy from PEI writes: If they brought someone good in it would have paid its self off. You can't expect to bring in old names and draw a huge crowd. Bring someone liek 3 doors down, nickelback lol although they will never step foot on this island ever again. BRING BIG BANDS IN and you WILL GET BIG CROWDS. Simple as that.
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lame brain doodling from charlottetown, pei writes: what did we expect this lady to do ? If she read even half as many comments as I did in this newspaper of people calling for more rock concerts irregardless of expense - well then, she just tried to give the people what they were wanting, didnt she And all the talk about how much financial gain the Island got from previous concerts would have given her a bit of a false overall picture.
Maybe she is not quite on top of things when it comes to who is and who is not so popular these days It is a bit difficult to grasp the idea of our young people being so excited over those almost-senior citizen bands like the Rolling Stones. Perhaps she might have gained some insight beforehand from our younger Islanders imput. Reading the comments on this website about past and future events is always a good idea
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Don Grant from Egmont, pe writes: This concert could have worked but it was poorly promoted. The tourism minister seems like she does not have a clue as to what she is doing. Tourism is extremely important to the economy and I hope Ghiz will roll a few heads so 2009 is a better year.
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ajax from pei writes: A PEI resident put his home up for sale so he could pay for the cancer medication to shrink a tumor so he could have surgery. The government would not cover the $7500.00 a month cost of the medication but just threw away upwards of half a million dollars on this fiasco......something is seriously wrong with this governments priorities.....
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florence campbell from ch,town, pei writes: clara bell from ch,town writes .
Wow$ 500,000 sure would have paid for a doctor for about three years .and if someone wasn,t able to keep their house payments up ,they don,t say well i just can,t pay it . they lose their home !
and they wonder why there is not a big turnout to vote , dah!!!!
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Gill AB from Ab, Ab writes: Ministers are like inventory, stupid in = stupid out.
Next time simply tell us how much it will cost tax payers before the concert starts, and then we'll tell you who is worth that much money.
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lou lou annie from pei writes: I don't think i like scotch.
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Shotgun Willy from PEI writes: Conference and Events Management? How come none of you are asking who are the principals in this Co. and who are they related to. Even the media seems to have failed to ask this all important question.
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Islander in Ottawa from Ottawa, Ontario writes: $400,000 for a concert and you won't rationalize drug prevention and treatment services for the Island's youth...something is seriously wrong with the way this province is run.
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dmc from pei writes: Does anyone know what the ministers previous employment consisted of? Is she qualified to be making these decisions, and if so how? previous employment history? education?
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mark from calgary, alberta writes: Don't worry my fellow Islanders,the money you people flush down the toilet will be replaced by the hard working Islanders out West.We will continue to try and keep all of the rest of you entertained. The economy is in great shape so keep up the good work at spending money you don't have and don't generate..
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Makemecringe from PEI writes: Quite frankly, this event SHOULD have been canceled when ticket sales were not where they should have been. That is what big shows do everywhere else. You know what else happens when the show isn't selling well? The concert promoter eats the losses as part of doing business - not the taypayers via an irresponsible government.
Here's a little tidbit about the concert promotion business. It's all a risk. When you gamble on the right shows, you make a killing, but not all the hands you play will pan out. You can't win them all and you learn to gamble smart. You bankroll the poorly selling shows with the ones that do well and you know when to fold your hand when things are really going poorly, as is what should of happened here.
Risk should be squarely with this promoter and we, as taxpayers, should be suing this man and bankrupting him if need be to get OUR money back.
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tp from Charlottetown, PE writes: I have no problem with the government investing in concerts. Yes, it can be a risk (what business isn't) but done right it can bring in tourists and $$. With Aerosmith and Black Eyes Peas, the government is still ahead of the game, even after Morissette.
And I have no problem with bringing in Alanis Morrissette. She's a decent act. (what, after one Aerosmith concert PEI only accepts mega-concerts now??)
The problem here was that the whole venture was poorly done. It reeked of amateurism, poor promotion, and something done at the last minute.
I agree with many other posters, let the pros handle concert promotion.
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Den from PEI writes: Hard to believe that we were this close to getting Van Halen until someone opened their big mouth and put the word government in the conversation. It would have been an awesome concert and would have been profitable. Next time, get some input from people who know the music scene a little better than a tourism minister and her cronies who still listen to Partridge Family vinyl records.
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The Observer from Stratford, PE writes: Den pick on the Partridge Family if you will but don't pick on vinyl. Vinyl records still produce a better more satisfying sound than any metallic sounding CD, MP3 etc.
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matt from pei writes: We need to invest into concerts and we need to have 2-3 every summer to keep the tourist coming im sorry but you need to spend money to make money.
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who gotThemoney from Charlottetown, PEI writes: Seems funny to me that no one ever mentions who actually owns this promotion company that never did anything before. I bet it's some big liberal with lots of close ties. I bet they wouldn't give me that kind of money.
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