MLA received funds from investor program TERESA WRIGHT The Guardian
A government MLA removed from the public accounts committee Tuesday says although he did receive money through a provincial immigration investment program, this was not the reason he left the committee.
Bush Dumville, MLA for West Royalty-Springvale, was a member of the committee which is charged with matters concerning the public funds of P.E.I. since first taking office in the spring of 2007.
On Tuesday, the committee was informed by a letter from the premier that Dumville and Alan McIsaac, MLA for Vernon River-Stratford, would no longer serve as members.
Committee chair Jim Bagnall questioned why this move was made at a time when the committee was about to decide whether to examine the Provincial Nominee Program (PNP).
“I can’t say for sure. All I can say is in the heat of what’s going on with the PNP program these people are taken off the committee,’’ Bagnall said Tuesday.
In an interview with The Guardian on Wednesday, Dumville admitted he did receive investments through the PNP, but insists this was not the reason he left the committee.
“This wasn’t even on the radar,’’ Dumville said.
“Two weeks ago something came up on public accounts and I realized I shouldn’t be on public accounts because I am on Treasury Board.’’
He said he asked the premier to remove him from the committee as a result of a discussion about the Cerner clinical information system.
“The chairman was making some statements that we’re way out of cost and all that, and Treasury Board was responsible a lot to make sure all the controls were brought into line and everything and I was part of that,’’ Dumville said.
Premier Robert Ghiz also told The Guardian Tuesday that Dumville’s seat on Treasury Board was the reason he was taken off public accounts and that it had nothing at all to do with the Provincial Nominee Program.
But Dumville did receive funds for his business through the PNP last fall. He said he went through the conflict of interest commissioner before accessing this money.
“The application was prepared by my accountant and lawyer and went through the proper channels,’’ Dumville said.
“I had a written ruling from the conflict of interest commissioner that everything was acceptable and in good order and that way we could proceed.’’
He stressed that it was a private business arrangement.
“It’s private companies hooking up with private companies and there’s no public funds involved and there’s no risk to the government, so I had no problem with the program itself.’’
When asked how many units he received, he wouldn’t answer.
“I’d rather not talk about private aspects of my business, if you don’t mind.’’
He added he has no control over how the public may view his involvement with this program.
In an interview Tuesday, McIsaac said he was surprised at Bagnall’s suggestion that perhaps he was taken off committee because he did not want to take part in a discussion on the Provincial Nominee Program.
“I had nothing to do with the Provincial Nominee Program,’’ McIsaac said. “I’m not involved in it, I’ve never received anything from it.’’
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Red Nex from PEI writes: Does anyone else smell. something funny?
If this comes out, for what it is, Polar will be small potatoes.
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TA from pei writes: Lets not prejudge this thing. Just because people in the know were able to take advantage of this program does not mean anything crooked went on. If they followed the established rules, and things got off the rails, look at the people who were responsible for drafting the rules. As they say, you need money to make money and you need to be in the know to take advantage of opportunities. Looks like lawyers, acting as the middle man, did okay for themselves. Lets not condemn everyone before knowing all of the facts. This is a situation playing out all across the country and it will keep the mounties going for some time. If politicians, following the rules, participated in this they shouldn't hang for it especially if the conflict of interest commissioner advised them that it was okay.
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Red Nex from PEI writes: Its all about preception.
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Don't believe the Hype from PE writes: All lot of people are saying that this program was a boon for those in the know, that they could get money if they had political ties. I heard of this program years ago. It was no top secret. I have no political ties. I didn't look into it either as I don't own a business. But I had still heard of it. I suspect that there will be a small number of MLA's, and a few business people with political ties who got money. But I would bet that there are a lot of business that got money from this program as well, with no political connection or affiliation.
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Keep digging from PE writes: Sounds like Bush Dumville is not the only one. He is small pototoes.
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Non-Beliver From Charlottetown from P.E.I. writes: Red Nex, Your correct, this comes no-where near passing the smell test. It's time Dumville came clean, and admitted how many units he received.
Other questions should be asked such as, would Dumville have qualified if he had not been on Treasury Board and Public Accounts. How does the Premier account for haveing these individuals on both Committees. After all, he makes the appointments. How many more MLA's are on Committees where there is a clear conflict. It seems to me the Conflict of Interest Commissioner should ensure that all MLA's have access to no Gov't or Gov't sponsored money.
Perception is everything in politics. Perception here does not leave a great taste in your mouth.
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Dick Buttkiss from Charlottetown, PE writes: Why is it that people run for politics for all the wrong reasons these days?? Every politician on PEI go into politics for one reason, and one reason only......to make themselves some very good money, whether it is legal or not or behind the scenes or not. What happened to people running for politics for the sole reason to look after their community and riding and try to make things better for the people they are representing? As far as I'm concerned, politicians are extremely overpaid for what they actually do while they are in government. They go and argue with each other about stop lights and other foolish things, but they never get anything done for the taxpayers and the people they are representing. The only thing the taxpayers get out of it is more taxes to pay so these political fat-cats can stuff more money into their pockets while the province falls apart.
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the program stinks from PEI writes: look at this program. It's an invitation to corruption. No surprises here.
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JD from PE writes: Don't Believe the Hype.....You need to do some research. A few people.
Really well the Ghiz Government was told by the Federal Government that they were concerned about this program back in the spring. But instead of becoming concerned themselves they increased jacked up the approvals whether they met the requirements or not.
People who say the Previous Government were just as bad don't know the facts.
The Previous Government had to follow the rules that a business had to be in power for 3 years before they could qualify.
The Ghiz Government changed that rule that new businesses that didn't exist a month before could now get this money.
So instead of being more cautious the Ghiz Government jacked up the amount of approvals.
So when the Previous Government done like few hundred applications in 7 years this Government done near 2,000 in 3 months.
You don't think there is scandal here.
If this is so clean than the Premier should release a list of who got money, what MLA's or Cabinet Ministers or families received money. Plus let Ghiz explain the fees and why the fees were all so high. Plus explain what the Government done with it's share.
This program smells so bad it will taint PEI worldwide as non welcoming place for immigrants.
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Bob from PEI writes: Mr Dumville may have a rude awakening coming. Under the program, the immigrant investor was investing in a company so that they had a source of income and self-sufficiency when they immigrated. Mr Dumville sees to be of the impression that the money he received was a gift. It wasn't - those who invested now own part of his business as investors.
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PEIdevil from Charlottetown, PEI writes: I've heard that some businesses got as much as $200K and don't have to pay back one single cent and THAT'S why the changes to the program were made to allow 'start ups' to apply for funding.
It seems apparent to me that all you had to do was ask, pay the accounting and legal cronies their share, and TA-DA...money's in your bank. Basically, you trade about $5K in upfront fees (plus GST of course!) in exchange for a $200K deposit to your bank. It takes only weeks. Do with the money as you wish...expand your business to gain a better edge on your competition, develop a new product, OR pay off your home mortgage, your income tax balance at CRA, buy a new car...get the wife that diamond she's been whining about. Whatever, it's up to you how you spend it and there's no one to answer to once the money is in your bank account. REVENUE CANADA should be interested in this file too.
Moving on. Start-ups begin with business plans, forecasts, etc...figures which we all know are often fantasy and the person behind the plan KNOWS it's ridiculously unrealistic. But, the gullible immigrant, whose English is often very poor, is no doubt 'railroaded' into buying the sales pitch. After all, this is Canada. We say hello to everyone, and sorry for everything. There's not a chance that an immigrant could be ripped off in the land of Anne, is there?
This whole program looks like a private lottery, and only those invited to the table (those whose apps were approved and passed the political test) get to share the wealth.
And, I'd guess that any new start-up that hasn't started already is likely a front for one of those old-fashioned boiler room scams. Pots of gold at the end of a paper rainbow that put nearly a quarter-million dollars into your bank account. I wonder how stuffed the thankyou cards have been?
This just might tarnish PEI and the whole of Canada enough that we could end up being perceived abroad as every bit as crooked as the Nigerian email scammers.
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brian hancox from saint john, n.b. writes: So let me get this right? An elected MLA(S) receive money through the Provincial Immigration program. He has a letter of approval from the conflict of interest commissioner saying everythng was acceptable. Tell us, what was the information given to the commissioner to get him to write his approval letter?
MLA Dumville says that is private business doing business with one and other and public money was not used. I take it this is to imply that the publice has nothing to be concerned about?
Well, when were these companies incorporated? How much money was given? How much money has been lost or missing? Why hide behind small corporations when you are the MLA for your people?
Get ready to meet the Fifth Estate because this stinks as bad as fresh manure on a windy day. Is Ghiz in hiding?
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syco23 gallant from Charlottetown, PE writes: Well come on now. You really can't blame these folks. If some one came to you and told you, all you had to do is start a phony company, invest 5 grand and you would win 200,000 wouldn't you jump at the opportunity. Or maybe you have more common scents to get involved in ripping off your fellow Islander. I know I couldn't live with myself if I did this.
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am i wrong from pe writes: am i wrong here ? But don't mla's have to give up business interests during time they are mla's ??? didn't the guy from up east have to sell his fishing boat interest or something?? And it clearly states under the gov. pe website that an investor has to either be on the board of directors of the company they invest in or be hired and earn $$ from the company. How can they do that when the other article states they don't know where the money was invested ???
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Mike from PEI writes: Has anyone asked the people involved is this program, as opposed to listening to Politicians or Joe Friday from the coffee shop? How about some other perspectives here instead of crying Foul??
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J from PE writes: our long established business participated in the PNP. Immigrant's investment was $200,000, we received less that 45,000. The rest went to the middle men. THEY should be investigated!
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anne smith from stratford, pei writes: oh my, what next,for our gentle island,but you get what you voted for this is just the beginning,just wait and see.and still we won't do anything about it,just sit back drink your tim's and smoke those cigs and keep on whinning,and do the same thing when the next election comes around 3 yrs. form now
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Don't believe the Hype from PE writes: People keep spouting numbers as thought they were facts. Oh, I heard some business got $200K, so it must be true. JD, you need to do some research. Look at the Provincial Corporate directory, do a search of businesses registered since April and see how many are registered to MLAs or immeditate families. Here's the link:
http://www.gov.pe.ca/corporations/index.php
The reason why there were more approvals this year, is that they state that once it was announced that this was the last year for it, a lot of people who didn't know it exsisted until this year jumped at a chance to gain capital for their business. And in order to qualify for funding, you first had to incorporate.
The auditor general will look into this, and I suspect there will be some wrong doing, but I bet it will be very samll conducted by very few. Show me a government program where there hasn't been any wrong doing. And it was most likely done by both parties.
To am I Wrong, MLAs do not need to give up their business interests. If their business pose a conflict, as if they are in cabinet, they are supposed to put them in a blind trust. In the case of the MLA you reference, he cannot transfer a fishing licence due to federal regulations. So he could keep his fleet, which he stated he was making payments on, but get no income from it, or he could sell it. He sold it.
I will wait to cry foul once the Auditor General states that there is wrong doing. Meanwhile, I am sure some of you partisans, such as JD, will decry the government everyday as he has since the last provincial election.
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I Can't believe this from PEI writes: Who elected these crooks?? I think there should be an investigation and a list of all companies involved, amount of money they all received, and who owns, operates, board of directors, and manages these companies. There maybe no wrong doing, but I'd love to see this information in print to see for myself, as I am sure many other island voters would. One term government if they all aren't arrested
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isn't all hype from PEI writes: Actually, I'm quite familiar with the program. $200K is how much it cost the immigrant in total. Of that, $25K was the refundable deposit if they stayed in PEI. $20K went to language training that was usually denied due to lackof availabel space. The rest was parcelled out in payments of around $50K per block, minus the hit for fees. The original intent of the program was that the immigrant either own or have a solid and functional stake in the company. What occurred was a perversion.
Hey Mike - yes, I have spoke with some of the very people who came to the province on this program. Many skip town within a few weeks, content to not get the deposit back. Most view the program as simply paying $175K to get resident status, and they are quite happy to pay it to allow them and their families (yes, the program says that the investor AND their immediate family get into the country) into the country.
Here's the reason to call foul. The whole affair represents a very deliberate attempt by most involved from the island business community to line their pockets. Does it matter that the person paying $200K feels they got a good deal? Absolutely NOT. A privileged few knowingly abused the system to make some quick cash by taking advantage of people who wanted to get into the country so badly they would pay through the nose. That is unethical, it is fraudulent and it should be punished.
So yes. Mr Hype, I cry foul. Not because of something as simple as a conflict of interest. Rather because this was entered into for the sole purpose of participating in the graft, abusing the sytem and nuzzling up to the trough. And I in no way believe that a fair and impartial investigation will find it to be the exception rather than the norm. But it won't be fair and it won't be impartial. This is PEI - corruption is mandated and washed in both red and blue.
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Shocked again from PEI writes: To-day, it is being said that at least one group received 135 investments. Say it isn't true.
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BewilderedIslander forgetmenot from summerside, PEI writes: I was in this program, we were approved and at the last minute the gov pulled the plug. I know of another business that is soon going bankrupt when lawyers suggested he borrow the money and repay when his investment came it........It never came in and he can't repay the debt.
I think the government should audit the use of each business that got funding to see where the money went. After all a business plan was submitted and the penalty of not following it will result in repayment of monies. Let's do the right thing shall we and make all accountable, or shall we just do like Polar and forget it. No MLA should have been allowed to participate. Isn't that like influence peddling?
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Not so shocked again from PEI writes: That's a lot of double doubles!
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No Shock here from City, Pei writes: I am not shocked! This government has a Reverse Robin Hood mentality. They take from the poor and give to the rich and I am not just talking about the IRAC shennannigans! This very serious matter with the immigrant investors is an insult and show of disrespect to the Chinese. And you want to convince them to stay on our Island? Gentle Island!Yeah, they'll gently roll you for your dough! It sure is time to get to the bottom of this!
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me from pei writes: stinky stinky stinky. and why is it, mostly liberals go into politics for dirty money or kickbacks (remember the liberal sponsorship scandal) , will not one of them stand up for public service? i volunteer and expect no return, i know lots of islanders who volunteer, and so many islanders are dedicated givers. why do we always end up with garbage?
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