New report condemns Civic Centre



New report condemns Civic Centre

New report condemns Civic Centre

Published on June 2nd, 2009
Published on June 15th, 2010
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A new multi-use sports and entertainment centre should include a maximum of 5,000 fixed seats within the arena bowl

Topics :
Charlottetown Civic Centre , Charlottetown Area Development , IBI Group , Charlottetown , Grafton Street

The Charlottetown Civic Centre is a poorly designed, money-bleeding facility in need of replacement, urges a new report.
"The opportunity exists for a new multi-use sports and entertainment centre (MUSEC) to serve the needs of the city and province as a whole,'' IBI Group recommended in its report released on Monday.
"The facility should include a maximum of 5,000 fixed seats within the arena bowl.''
The estimated cost of such a facility, assuming a "moderately-high level of quality and functionality,'' is $40 million excluding land.
The report was commissioned by the Charlottetown Area Development Corporation (CADC) to undertake an assessment of the existing and prospective market for the Charlottetown Civic Centre (CCC) acting as a multi-use sports, entertainment and trade show venue.
The report determined the existing arena has a number of deficiencies and the main drivers of revenue will continue to be jeopardized without significant capital investment in the facility.
With municipal and provincial subsidy, the arena and trade centre create a deficit of over $600,000, excluding any debt payments.
The report concludes that investment into the CCC is required. Adopting the status quo is not an option.
"Our analysis suggests very strongly that maintenance of the facility in its current condition, with no plan of action in place to develop the strategic asset of the CCC, and the Civic Centre Arena in particular, is an option which undervalues the potential associated with the facility,'' according to the 16-page executive summary.
The report offered as alternative to building a new $40 million facility several options for major renovation/expansion of the existing Civic Centre Arena with costs ranging from $25 million to $34.4 million depending on the option.
Charlottetown Mayor Clifford Lee doesn't anticipate council to be in a big hurry to pump money into any option put forward in the report.
He says council needs to sit down and discuss the report. He hopes the report doesn't gather dust. He would like to see a business plan developed among partners like the CADC, Tourism Charlottetown, and provincial and federal government.
"I think there are a lot of questions that need to be answered,'' he said.
Lee says he would need assurances that a major investment into a new multi-use sports and entertainment centre would pay dividends for the city. He did concede that the Charlottetown Civic Centre falls short on several fronts.
"We've recognized for quite some time it was not able to attract large types of conventions and entertainment, not only because of the number of seats but because of the design of the building,'' he said.
Still, Lee says a decision on the Civic Centre's future will need to await the development of the larger so-called gateway plan.
The mayor noted a lot of effort had gone into the development of festival and events space on the former Imperial Oil lands at the eastern end of Grafton Street and that there would be potential for other development possibilities.
"We are looking on this exercise as one of the exciting pieces of a puzzle that eventually will become a redeveloped gateway for the eastern end of the city and the eastern anchor for ongoing development of the city's waterfront,'' he said.
"I hope this report, and the information it contains, will generate some positive stakeholder and public discussion that will continue to inform the ongoing planning process.'

Comments

  • Username
    Jorge
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:43:29

    Call Wessie, it's time to go!....get a real arena before we lose or QMJHL team

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    live
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:39:27

    Ok, so now you want to build a new sports facility?? HHHmmmm.. well i remember when this present one was talked about and continuous fighting as to where it would be built. The Architect from Halifax and as soon as it opened it was ... to say the best... the worst spent money every in the history of any city!!
    Just remember when you wanted to build this present Palace the main thing the archetect had to be concerned about was... well the cows need to get to the middle of the arena during Old Home Week
    If you do decide to build something more sensible .. like S'Side then don't be afraid to go and have a look and feel free to ask questions. DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE!! And... put someone in charge that actually knows what they are doing and talkig about!! Don't f@#$%^&*( up again!!

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    pat of pei
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:36:52

    what is new. that place was considered obsolete when it was built. it was a case of not thinking big enough, which happens in a lot of cases on pei.

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  • Username
    taxpayer
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:36:04

    I remember the same things being said when it opened in the early 90's. People were mad about it when they were building it.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    down east
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:34:25

    MOVE IT DOWN EAST SINCE WE HAVE NO MORE SCHOOLS !

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Tom
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:32:52

    To yeah right from Ch'town, PEI writes: Not with my tax dollars you won't --


    Well if this does go through sometime in the future you do realize you will have to leave Canada, because your tax dollars both federal and provincial will be hard at work.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    daddy
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:32:42

    Make sure a Canadian designs the new one. Not anouther flunkie from Lapland. And build it in summerside so it'll be run right!

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    tp
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:27:07

    Do not think for a second that this facility's issues are because of its age. This arena was bad from Day 1. From the bad ice, ventilation, seating, dressing rooms, poor use of space...you name it, it was poorly designed and poorly thought out. No vision.

    So what happened? How did we get left with something like this? The city had a rink virtually handed to them by the Canada Winter Games. We should not need, 17 years later, a brand new facility.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    down
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:25:43

    for the love of god close it already. it's costing our precious gov. too much money and attendance has been declining since it was built.but before we close it we should hire a big consulting firm ,at outrages costs to the taxpayer,to take a look at the facility and tell us why we should close it.when this is done the gov.can rely on someone else to take the heat for closing it ,not unlike our inept EASTERN SCHOOLBOARD .anyway, summerside s got a better rink so the townies have to keep up with the Jones's.good luck urbanville and don t forget it's mostly rural people who fill the rink anyway.

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  • Username
    here here
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:18:49

    @Not another arena


    I couldn't have stated it any better.

    Beautiful man, just beautiful.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    nitpicker
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:17:28

    don't be absurd Joe. The Civic Centre's shortcomings and flaws were showing their ugly head long before CUP was even on the drawing board.

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  • Username
    Montreal Islander
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:16:40

    In 1991 I remember going to the CCC with friends and remarking how poorly it was designed. Get rid of it before it becomes PEI's version of Montreal's Big Owe . I've seen enough of big concrete sinkholes up here to know that the CCC is a money losing bomb. Poor design, poor accoustics, poor sightlines...and ugly.

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  • Username
    yeah right
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:14:10

    Not with my tax dollars you won't.

    $40 million for an entertainment facility to play a game?

    You could build 20 new arenas across PEI for that cost.

    You could pay the salaries of over 300 doctors (assuming $125k/doctor).

    You could expand UPEI and bring more grad programs and resulting research spin-offs to PEI.

    Anything but wasting it on a bloody entertainment facility. CADC should be ashamed of its blatant pathetic greed and ill-informed logic.

    Please.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Jason
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:13:41

    The Civic Centre where it stands now is not the proper place for a facility. If the city an province are serious about doing a proper job (we all know how things get done on PEI) it needs to be relocated to a space with proper parking for spectators, proper parking for vendors and performers and a long term outlook. It needs to be relocated to the edge of the city with a 30 year development plan around it's buffer zone. Can the city do long term planning for this facility and can they do it without offending the precious money loosing race track.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Walt
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:11:52

    Maybe there is a pocket of 4 or 5 Charlottetown families that don't have a French School. Instead of a Community Center the Feds could cost share a new 5000 seat multi-use sports and entertainment centre.

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  • Username
    down to the last dollar
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:11:30

    I thought there was an economy crunch running around somewhere out there.
    I know there is one in my personal budget. We are already top-heavy with big relatively new buildings that just don't fit in Ch'town. Is this where the closed schools money will go - will those dollars be the first drop in the bucket ?
    Of course there is always the next round of tobacco tax to help out a bit. And then there is the deposits paid on new tv's and stuff. Maybe they can weave those dollars into the mix. We look like a freaking false store fronts cow town.
    The old YMCA buildijng looks odd with that smaller attachment jutting out on the top and the graffiti on the side. Who wants to buy a condo in an area usually littered with garbage, empty houses peeling paint and some sort of store on one corner that is never open. The former Ken's Corner store is the only busy place in this whole area. I would have thought more concrete plans to clean up the inner city area and fill in some empty spots would be closer to the top of the list than a bigger entertainment center.

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  • Username
    to daddy mac
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:09:52

    I will say sside has a beautiful new facility...but don't let them run it-remember a little over a month ago the fiasco that went on there with them and moncton? I never did get my money back for the 2 tickets I bought on-line-and I wasn't about to spend 20 bucks on gas to get 20 back for the tickets!

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    wog
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:09:17

    Well, I don't know what should be done or shouldn't be done, but boy, there's no question the Wellness Centre in Summerside is by far a superior facility, both in function and design. I would have to think it'd draw some events away from the Civic Centre. Its up to City Council how important that is to them.

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  • Username
    and how old is this?
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:07:54

    how old is this facility? (I'm CFA) The whole thing is a mess. Let the CDP subsidize it! Oh wait, WE subsidize the CDP. Darn!

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Not another arena
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:05:45

    Ah, yes, PEI, gentle island of little communities and big churches (and gargantuan arenas).

    Give it a rest, why don't you? How many events need more than 5,000 seats?

    If it's some touring act taking the money and fleeing out of town -- I say 'boogie till you puke.'

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  • Username
    Former huge Forum
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:04:29

    We needed a study for this?

    EVERYBODY knew it since 1991! The design was a huge mistake.

    I want to know who designed it and who signed off on it from the city. Name names. These people have been hiding for years.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Quiet
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:03:32

    I like McGoos idea - makes a lot of sense. With the Casino, rink and race track right there - an awesome concept.

    Oops, no, wait, that is not downtown. If anything good is going to get invested in in Charlottetown it has to be in the downtown core.

    There is no point spending any money on it if there is not a strategy to bring more business in. The best way to do this is with the new conference centre.

    Problem is that it makes too much sense for the downtown biased city to comprehend.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Blaine
    - June 21st, 2010 at 20:01:15

    40 million to replace a perfectly good building you aint happy with for a place to play after shutting down plans to build a new Hospital in West Prince?I dont think so.
    Someone would be lynched if this were to take place.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Bankuba
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:58:24

    i remember people complaining as soon as it opened. it wasn't a very intelligent design from day one. the seating isn't sloped steeply enough to give a good view like other arenas.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    same old
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:56:05

    I wish that Crown Corporations would stop wasting the public's time with such announcements.

    The CADC is funded by taxpayer's money. Where is the accountability by The Guardian and other media into these organizations?

    Arms-length Crown Corporations established willy nilly by the province and municipalities need to be examined for the decision making that takes place and how it relates to political gain for their staff and their political masters.

    Island Waste Management, PEI Business Development, CADC, Tourism Charlottetown, PEI Liquor Control Commission, Charlottetown Harbour Authority, Charlottetown Airport Authority, Summerside Regional Development Corporation, PEI Housing Corporation, IRAC, PEI Energy Corporation, 2009 Canada Games Council, etc....

    Every single one of these organizations are polluted with political appointees from the ruling provincial Liberals and provincial Progressive Conservatives (notice I don't make any distinction between these parties) and many of these individuals in the well-connected oligarchy that rules the roost here on PEI were granted PNP units.

    These individuals are outside the nominal control of the Public Service Commission... Federal equalization payments flood this province from Ottawa non-stop and that filters through Provincial Cabinet into the clutches of these organizations which have questionable financial control, and even more questionable public policies and very questionable society benefit, aside from spending taxpayer money like drunken sailors.

    CADC needs to start realizing that as a public organization its first and foremost priority is to SAVE THE TAXPAYER MONEY. To do this means stop dreaming up hare-brained schemes that will waste $40 million on top of the $20 million spent to build the Charlottetown Civic Centre.

    It's time to fundamentally reform the way that CADC and other organizations are run on PEI. This is one of the real reasons why we face unsustainable $50 million deficits year after year that our tiny tiny tax base can ill afford. It is time for some political will to be exercised and for these organizations to be fundamentally reformed (ie. dissolved). They have no function beyond wasting our tax dollars.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    vick
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:54:22

    I agreeeeeee the CCC is a joke and we do need a properly designed facility! Go for it BUT hold onnnnnn lets get some folks in there that know how to run it because those who have been running the city of Ch'towns rec the last 20yrs need to be removed! Start FRESH...Sell the CCC to Atlantic Corp or the private sector for big money not a dollar.....get the same people to run CARI because this is costing the city WAY to much money.......and then finally the city tax payers can make money and stop paying out their noses..........Bring in well business educated people to run these facilities not CITY FRIENDS! Its not rocket science!

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    lena
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:52:46

    As most people understand, sometimes you have to spend money to make money. We can't be so backward thinking. Let's build it!!

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    James
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:49:46

    In the past several months wasn't it announced that there was going to be an infusion of monies by the federal government to build a convention facility in downtown. Why can't the federal, provincial, and Charlottetown governments put their heads together and determine how one facility can meet everyone's needs?

    It would seem the land currently being occupied by the Civic Center might be put to better revenue generation (taxes, fees, etc.) use. If the design of the proposed Convention Center incorporated the use requirements outlined by IBI all island taxpayers may be better served.

    We read constantly about a lack of funds available to meet the needs of the general population. Expand your thinking and sharpen your efforts to make local and national leadership work together.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Wayne
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:45:13

    P.E.I. has a population of 140,000 people with a long term debt of $1.6 billion dollars;each Islander owes over $11,000 each.

    Now the Chosen Ones want to spend $40 million on a new entertainment facility for Charlottetown.

    Would taxpayers be better served if we used the facility in Summerside for the number of times we need such a facility?

    The elected representatives here are oblivious to the fact the world is experiencing a major economic downturn in the economy.

    The retail industry here is well aware of this downturn, the tax collector must see a shortfall in sales tax being collected.

    The Premier says we are a one Island community; so why do they want to build a wellness centre, a rink, and a hospital in every community?

    Can taxpayers afford to pay for all these expeditures? What happens when the PNP immigrants come looking for their money, the Cornwall bypass goes ahead, and the Oak Drive bypass etc.? Our debt will reach $3 billion and the $hit will hit the fan.

    Does anyone know if a Province can declare bankruptcy?

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    old school
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:44:44

    Well we can go all the way back to former mayor Spy Ready for the mess of the Civic Centre.
    There was rumblings at the time of trying to land a minor pro hockey team as the AHL had a strong base of teams in the region back then.
    Ol' Spy didn't want nothing to do with a pro club coming in fearing it would take away from junior and collegiate hockey, so he okayed a pi$$-poor design.
    Hmmm...three years later we had an AHL team and junior A and university hockey still existed.

    Get this dinosaur of a building demolished and let's get a facility that can attract more events instead of being handcuffed by a rotten design.

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    wow!
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:44:21

    It took them almost 20yrs to figure out that the Civic Center is poorly designed ...everyone knew it the first time they walked into that barn...poor poor poor!

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Wow
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:41:50

    Get the popcorn out

    This will get ugly

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Michael
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:41:29

    No good? Gotta spend $40 million for something else ?
    So why does the website say:
    The Charlottetown Civic Centre is Prince Edward Island's premiere trade, entertainment and sport facility. The complex is one of the best facilities in Atlantic Canada in terms of space, flexibility, and customer service. Over 70,000 square feet of programmable space is offered. The facility hosts sports, entertainment, trade, convention, meeting, and exhibition events and programs.?
    Like many complaints from Islanders, source information is contradictory.
    The CCC was opened in February 1990, built as two facilities for the 1991 Canada Winter Games. If it is so poorly designed, are we facing the same outcome with facilities for the 2009 Summer Games?
    As a multi-purpose facility, its stated focus is to host premiere events for Charlottetown and Prince Edward Island, contributing to the city and provinces reputation as an event destination. All of a sudden, and contrary to its own promotional materials, this facility is not designed for that purpose and cannot possibly fullfil its mandate without massive infusions of cash that we don't have?
    Get your stories straight, boys and girls.

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  • Username
    RG
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:36:25

    If they renovate, I hope they do something about the parking spaces.
    On several occasions I'd go on a Saturday afternoon to hit the poker tables and I couldn't find a parking spot when there wasn't even anything going on inside. It would just be the horse races and every single parking spot was taken.

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  • Username
    Who
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:35:22

    ...imagine, a company that specializes in entertainment facility design condemning an existing facility, only to reccommend a requirement for a $40 million dollar facility. ....but WHO...WHO possibly could design such a facility?? IBI perhaps?

    Submit a Comment

  • Username
    Joe
    - June 21st, 2010 at 19:34:30

    So now it's suddenly a barn with bleachers that MUST be replaced?

    We wouldn't even be discussing this if Summerside didn't have a facility 10 times better that of the Civic Centre.

    Maybe some are a tad jealous of Credit Union Place and it's potential.

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