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Concerns on credit scores prompt talks

Janice Sherry Guardian photo

Janice Sherry

Published on January 24, 2013
Published on January 23, 2013
Teresa Wright  RSS Feed

Consumers’ Association of Canada and TransUnion have registered public concern over this proposed change.

Topics :
Association of Canada and TransUnion , TransUnion Canada , Canada , Charlottetown

Groups that represent both industry and consumers are raising concern over proposed changes by the province to disallow insurance companies from asking for their clients’ credit scores.

Both the Consumers’ Association of Canada, an advocacy organization dedicated to defending consumers’ rights, and TransUnion, one of Canada’s largest credit information companies, have registered public concern over this proposed change.

Bruce Cran of the Consumers’ Association said he does not understand why government is getting involved in this issue.

“Over 75 per cent of people have good credit records,” he said.

Since most insurance companies offer discounts on home and auto insurance to those with good credit, eliminating this practice would also eliminate these discounts.

“That means 75 per cent of people can benefit (from discounts). The other 25 per cent could too if they get their act together,” Cran said.

In late November, P.E.I. Justice Minister Janice Sherry said government had received complaints that the practice of collecting credit scores had resulted in some Islanders being denied insurance or offered only highly-priced rates.

She announced she would seek public input on a possible change to the regulations that would disallow the use of personal financial information by insurance companies.

“As the minister responsible, my concern would be around those who would be affected negatively in the fact that they may not be able to access insurance,” Sherry said in an interview.

“I don’t think it’s something that people should be discriminated against due to their credit score.”

“Our insurance customers have told us that these discounts can range as high as 20 per cent,” - Ken Porter, president of TransUnion Canada

Ken Porter, president of TransUnion Canada, said he is concerned the proposed changes take away the right of consumers to voluntarily provide this information as a way to access lower insurance premiums.

“Our insurance customers have told us that these discounts can range as high as 20 per cent,” Porter said in an email response to The Guardian.

“Our data shows that most Prince Edward Islanders maintain what the industry defines as a good credit score, meaning a majority of Islanders would benefit from a flexible regulatory framework that allows them the choice to provide their credit information when applying for or renewing their home or auto insurance.”

Representatives from TransUnion were in Charlottetown this week and met with Sherry, as well as officials in the Opposition office.

Sherry said her department will take all feedback on this issue into consideration as they decide how to proceed.

“I’m sure that it will become pretty apparent (what to do) with the types of feedback and the information that the general public brings forward,” Sherry said.

“We’ll see, I think, trends in the communication that we receive back.”

The deadline for submissions to the department on this issue has passed, but Sherry noted she would be willing to accept additional feedback over the next week.

twright@theguardian.pe.ca

twitter.com/PEIGuardian

 

Comments

  • Username
    SG
    - January 25, 2013 at 08:18:16

    What's our Present Government's Credit Score? Let's check that one first!

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  • Username
    Big Joe Muffaraw
    - January 25, 2013 at 01:25:10

    Bill Kays, I have read your posts before and they are so full of negativity and disrespect they are not worth reading. Any good points you may have are so buried in your paranoia of government they are lost.

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    • Username
      the eye
      - January 25, 2013 at 12:53:17

      Big Joe Muffaraw, at least Bill Kays has the courage to post using his real name. And, if you don't think your post is full of "negativity and disrespect" you should invest in a dictionary.

  • Username
    UPWESTER
    - January 24, 2013 at 18:00:59

    This is so not about the consumer. If insurance companies want to give customers discounts, just look at their record with them. Look at their driving record, look at claims, look at payment of premiums. They already have all this information. You have to ask yourself, why is my insurance company wanting to earn less premiums?Well ,they don't. Credit scores will only be used to jack up rates, not lower them. When has the insurance industry ever had your interest at heart. As the lawyers say about ins. contracts, make sure you read the fine print.

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  • Bill Kays
    Bill Kays
    - January 24, 2013 at 17:40:48

    We need this legislation because it would show that government is actually doing its job of protecting ALL of its citizen's, not just the ones with a good credit score. To allow discrimination based on credit scores must be outlawed. This is just another way insurance companies get to discriminate against people. Which class of citizen are you? Are you good enough to get the insurance discount?

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    • Username
      Piet Hein
      - January 25, 2013 at 01:20:18

      So Bill, you are saying credit scores should not be used. What about banks? Credit Cards? Car dealers? You see what I am saying? Credit scores have been used for years to determine who gets a loan, who pays what interest rate and who gets to drive a new car. For example - if you have a good credit score and I have a lousy rating and our insurance company is offering a discount to you because of your excellent credit rating, but I cannot get the discount because of my bad rating should you not be entitled to the discount even thoughI am not? How are the insurance companies practising discrimination? Are banks, credit card companies, car dealers, any store that issues credit all practising discrimination because they look at credit ratings to see who gets credit? By your twisted logic the insurance companies are discriminating against bad drivers and drunk drivers when they make them pay higher rates.

    • Username
      captain canuck
      - January 25, 2013 at 11:56:53

      Piet, you're not making sense. Your credit score is intended to indicate to a bank or credit card how risky you are in re-paying loans. Your credit score has nothing to do with your insurance, job, etc and all the other evil ways people get all Orwwellian all over your @$$.

  • Username
    FedUp
    - January 24, 2013 at 17:04:09

    Piet - What I am saying is that if you get in trouble financially companies should not be able to decide you need to be ‘punished’ through higher rates in an unrelated service. A person’s track record with a company should stand on its own merits. Give people breaks for making timely payments, lack of claims, good driving, staying on top of safety updates, etc. That makes sense. I would also add that, you may be financially sound but, you showed yourself to be unsound and boorish when you turned your disagreement into a personal attack. You need some help.

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  • Username
    Brian Young
    - January 24, 2013 at 16:14:45

    How do you suppose a credit score becomes not so good? Maybe because those people do not pay their bills on time if at all, have unpaid bills go to collections, default on loans, etc. And these irresponsible individuals cry discrimination and that it is unfair when they do not get the same "breaks" as the majority who have proven they can manage their finances appropriately? Are you out of your mind? What would not be fair is to reward bad behaviour by treating the irresponsible and responsible alike. What a shame the government continues to demonstrate an on-going policy of sticking it to anyone who follows the rules, who tries to do the right thing. A disgrace!

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    • Username
      mej
      - January 24, 2013 at 16:46:05

      So, if I've defaulted on a loan, but I've kept my home insurance paid up for the past 15 years I don't get a discount, but someone who has great credit and never had insurance before does?? Somethings not right with that. What does defaulting on my loan have to do with my home insurance??

  • Username
    What the heck?
    - January 24, 2013 at 15:58:07

    After the Plan B shemozzle what could Sherry possibly mean when she uses the words "additional feedback"? She and her government have made a sham out of the words "input" and "feedback" - she may as well say, "blow it out your ear".

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  • Username
    Joe Blow
    - January 24, 2013 at 14:43:58

    Credit scores should have no impact on insurance rates. Driving record should be the only thing that dictates how much you should have to pay for insurance. This is just a scam by the Ghiz Liberals so they can get lower insurance rates. They no doubt gave themselves excellent credit scores with all the PNP money they all stole for themselves to help pay off debts and whatever else....so their credit scores are likely shining like new. Anything that the Ghiz government talks about is only to benefit them and to make the citizens of PEI pay more!! You can take that to the bank!!

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    • Username
      Bill Cone
      - January 25, 2013 at 01:05:29

      Joe, you are a complete idiot. Even you cannot read your own post without realizing you have absolutely no intelligence at all.

  • Username
    Piet Hein
    - January 24, 2013 at 13:42:10

    This Liberal government, like most governments, nickel and dime us to death and when we finally can get a bit of a break from the insurance companies the Ghiz government wants to close that door. I don't see how this move by the insurance companies is an attack against the poor like some posters are saying. Yes, if a poor person has a bad credit score then they cannot receive the discount, but the same applies to anyone - poor or not. If that same poor person goes to the bank with that poor credit rating they could be denied a loan. No one is up in arms about that even though by denying the poor man a loan it means he is forced to to the loan sharks at the payday loan outfits. The vast majority of Islanders have good credit so why should they be denied discounts because of the minority of deadbeats with poor credit?

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    • Username
      mej
      - January 24, 2013 at 16:38:25

      I think the point some are making is why should the person with no credit or bad credit be denied insurance, or have to pay higher rates? Getting a loan from a bank and getting home insurance are 2 very different things. Im not asking my insurance company to loan me insurance, I'm paying my hard earned money to insure that if something happens to my home, I'm covered by insurance.

  • Username
    Billy Arsenault
    - January 24, 2013 at 13:33:12

    I not sure I understand this, but why should a credit score be a determining factor with insurance. This is almost like saying a person is guilty until proven innocent. Also it is discrimination. My credit score is terrible so I assume that allowing my insurance company access my credit report would put my premium through the roof even though I have never had an accident. Shouldn't you be rewarded discounts based on your driving as opposed to credit information?

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  • Username
    Kate
    - January 24, 2013 at 13:12:53

    I am wondering what my credit score has to do with my ability to drive safe and accident free or my ability to secure my home. I'm thinking the answer is absolutely nothing. I cannot see any correlation between what I pay in insurance and my credit score. If they were checking my score to determine my ability to pay my premiums, that is one thing. That is not the purpose of this. It seems the purpose is to give those with more money a financial break and penalize, or in fact not insure those with less. My credit rating is just fine but I vehemently disagree with this in principle.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Captain Canuck
    - January 24, 2013 at 13:10:29

    I'm surprised it's legal to use the credit score. I know for fact that insurance companies deny doing that. I also know they do do it. Credit scores are hurt by errors more often than by bad financial management.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Rose Hicken
    - January 24, 2013 at 13:04:55

    There are still people in this world and on PEI that actually don't use credit for anything. They do not have loans, mortgages, credit cards. They pay for everything by saving up for it. Therefore these same people who should have the best credit scores of anyone, all have no credit scores. Which means they will have to pay more than those that actually use credit cards to buy everything. Disgraceful.

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  • Username
    don
    - January 24, 2013 at 12:15:38

    and i bet you will have to pay HST on this to.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    gerry
    - January 24, 2013 at 12:02:27

    The Guardian should conduct research in terms of the insurance industry's profits versus claims paid. Any insurance company's ultimate goal, like any other profit sharing business, is to make money at the exorbitant cost to the consumer. Does PEI have a Superintendent of Insurance, if so, what is her/his take on this scam? Insurance agencies underwite policies through more than one company, so if you're not satisfied with your premium give your agent the opportunity to shop around, while conducting your own research. But then again, the best premium (to the consumer) should be the insurance agent's common proactive practise versus the mentality "if the consumer doesn't ask, I won't offer." If you have been a long-time customer, who has always paid his/her premiums then why would a credit check be necessary? Also, who is the credit history shared with? How many more people are yu granting access to your personal information, e.g. phone solicitators? Is it all in the tedious fine print?

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  • Username
    FedUp
    - January 24, 2013 at 11:54:29

    Just another 'ripping off the poor to line the pockets of the rich' scheme. Telephone, power, banking all do it so why not the insurance companies?

    Submit a comment

    • Username
      Piet Hein
      - January 24, 2013 at 13:21:07

      So Fedup, you are saying that most poor people have poor credit scores so cannot get the insurance discounts. Is that correct? Why are you stereotyping the poor this way by saying they all have poor credit scores? Are you judging them by your own personal circumstances? I would think the lower income people are just as honest in their bill paying as most people and if they are then they can receive the discount. If they are not then the discount is denied to them just as it is to any bad credit rating.

  • Username
    Gerry
    - January 24, 2013 at 11:40:05

    Guardian, do some research and advise the public as to which insurance companies offer discounts. Never heard tell of this scheme. Does PEI have a Superintendent of Insurance? If so, what is her/his role? I recall an insurance agency (like all agencies which underwrtite policies for many companies) attempting to convince me that although my child took DriverEd, the cost of insurance would be much cheaper than if hadn't . Had I been gullible, my total insurance premium would have doubled. Needless to say I shopped around and my premium increased by $100.00. Mr. Cran demonstrates the typical insurance industry attitude. Insurance companies establish premiums so that they are always wealthy. The number of claims paid comparable to the premiums collected, is undoubtedly astounding. The insurance industry has been and always will be laughing all the way to the bank. Will the consumers?

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  • Username
    Bob Skiffington
    - January 24, 2013 at 11:28:46

    I have a good credit score so why should I be denied a discount on my insurance rates because there are other people who do not have a good credit score and so are denied this discount? Credit rating and scores are used all time. Go to a bank and if you have good credit you can get a loan and if your score is bad then the loan is denied or you will have to pay a higher interest rate. The same goes at the furniture store, credit cards or whatever. Impaired drivers or drivers with a lot of accidents are insured with money in a pool so they will not be denied insurance. This could be done in this case. Good scores get the discount while those with bad credit or low scores will still get insurance.

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  • Username
    The View From Here
    - January 24, 2013 at 11:19:43

    This is a great oppertunity for the consumer to voice an opinion and have a choice. If we alow the corporate world to impose their wishes on us without expression the we have ourselves to blame. Insurance companies are just using this as a tool to manage risk and unfortunately try to eliminate risk and provide more equity for share holders. This should be a wakeup call for the consumer to ask questions and look at other options or companies that don't require additional information. If we remain silent then we all know what the outcome will be....

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  • Username
    Piet Hein
    - January 24, 2013 at 11:18:37

    Last fall I received a letter from my insurance company asking permission to use my credit score to help determine my rates and since I have an excellent rating I saw no problem and gave permission. When my bill came in the mail I saw that i was indeed saving money on my home insurance. i hope the insurance companies will also use this method for car insurance. The insurance business is always under fire for gouging, ripping off customers or whatever, but when they act so save some of their customers money they are also attacked. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Baz
    - January 24, 2013 at 10:22:54

    My guess is that the credit bureau's want to sell more reports. An individual's credit rating has absolutely nothing to do with risk as it relates to Insurance. Surely Minister Sherry will not fall for this very unreasonable and unethical proposal by an organization thinking only of their bottom line.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    B
    - January 24, 2013 at 10:18:17

    Not sure how my credit score will impact how I drive - which is what insurance rates SHOULD be reflecting. If I'm late paying a credit card bill doesn't mean I'm a menace on Island roads. If people drive reasonably and don't have collisions, then their rate should reflect that. If people being late paying their car insurance, then cancel their policy. Business is business, but if your business is car insurance, then base the rates on who/what you are insuring.

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  • Username
    mej
    - January 24, 2013 at 10:00:07

    I would think that an insurance policy without any claims for a number of years would be reason enough for a discount. If I had bad credit, it should not stop me from insuring my home or my car. Is this just a way for the insurance company to charge me a higher rate? If I pay for insurance on my home, it shouldn't matter what my credit is!! If I don't make a payment, then I don't get insurance, no need to check my credit score.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Joke
    - January 24, 2013 at 09:40:32

    What a total joke. There are no bigger frauds than insurance in our country today. They depend on volunteer fire departments raising money by fund raising to protect their assets, they screw people that become disabled by forcing them to sue them to get claims that they have paid into their entire lives and now they base insurance premiums on credit ratings? If anyone thinks they provide discounts to those with good ratings, they are living in a dream world. They charge higher premiums for whoever they can get away it, but insurance discounts are smoke and mirrors. The entire industry is a scam.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Mick
    - January 24, 2013 at 09:38:12

    The foxes are in the hen house. Mr Porter of TransUnion is merely protecting a volume of business from the insurance industry. He will only tell you what serves his interest. Before Ms Sherry accepts a statement that there are savings of 20%, she should demand documentation of proof. Premiums have risen drastically in the past ten years , why? This will be a means to increase them more. I do not trust the insurance industry.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Sistermary
    - January 24, 2013 at 09:03:43

    Instead of worrying about credit scores Janice, maybe working on having people who commit violent acts on PEI , put in jail longer then the pathetic sentences that have been given out lately. That would involve actual work.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Wake Up
    - January 24, 2013 at 09:03:28

    It is because 60% of Islanders do not have secondary health care insurance and the vehicle insurance is the only way to divert some of the cost of injury and disability from Provincial Health care and Social Services. I will show insurance companies my rating if they show me theirs. Insurance compaines were shown to be fleecing their customers in New Brunswick 92 dollars per policy to the tune of 72 million dollars and Nova Scotia it was 106 per policy. You want transparency? Show us yours. Trans Union is a paid service that collects this data, All they are saying is we want to get paid.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Marie
    - January 24, 2013 at 08:57:32

    Shouldn't auto insurance be based solely on ones' driving/accident record. Very little driving history in a credit report!!! An accident free/ticket free driver with no credit history is worse off than a road maniac with yellow papers(tickets) flying out the window as long as he/she has a good credit rating. "My insurance is cheaper because I pay my mortgage and credit cards on time" sounds absolutely stupid to me. Does paying credit bills on time make you a safer driver???? Yet this is the insurance system for years! All in the name of profit, not safety on the roads.Yet another seperation for the working poor!

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  • Username
    Promises?
    - January 24, 2013 at 08:57:14

    What a joke! After all the broken promises Sherry hit Islanders with over Plan B, why would anybody in their right mind believe her?

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  • Username
    Insurance high enough
    - January 24, 2013 at 08:33:26

    Insurance company must stay out of the credit check business. Insurance is insurance and if you pay the premium you get the coverage. Giving people with poor credit ratings - usually the poor - will then result in higher premium costs while the well heeled - usually with good credit ratings will pay reduced insurance premiums. The result would be just another hardship for the poor!

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  • Username
    don
    - January 24, 2013 at 08:08:56

    look out islander we are going to be screwed again by sherry with her agreeing with the insurance companies as they have deep pockets.

    Submit a comment

  • Username
    Stephen
    - January 24, 2013 at 07:19:39

    "The other 25 per cent could too if they get their act together,” Cran said." Are you serious. You've just painted 25% of the population of PEI with the same brush stating we are lazy slobs. I personally fall in that 25% with bad credit because of unfortunate circumstances not due to me not having my "act together" That was truly a heartless comment and hope to see an appology posted in the newspaper.

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  • Username
    Good Credit Rating
    - January 24, 2013 at 06:38:14

    I believe a good track record with your insurance company should be enough to determine whether you qualify for a discount or not. I think it's absurd to raise someone's premium, because they may commit fraud based on their credit rating. Do they have data to prove otherwise? If not, a bit presumptuous, don't you think??

    Submit a comment

    • Username
      Insurance too High now
      - January 24, 2013 at 15:48:45

      I believe it should be based on your record. I have never had a claim in over 30 years, yet since I had a financial setback, the Cooperators wanted to more than double my fees. It was good bye Cooperators and hello huge savings. I guess you need to do some window shopping, if you can't get what you want locally, well, yet again, we will have to go off island! Tired of hearing buy local, when things like this are gouging the pocketbook. I would LOVE to keep it local, but the locals have to cooperate as well!

  • Username
    Dan MacInnis Brampton
    - January 24, 2013 at 05:31:51

    Reading “An open letter to Prince Edward Islanders”, (New provincial insurance rules to hit Islanders' wallets, Bruce Cran, Guardian letters, January 15, 2013) at first glance a reader might thank Mr. Cran for his concern for the citizens of PEI. It reads to me that he is lobbying the public to pressure Island MLA’s to recind Bill C 38, legislation that protects the privacy of individuals. He writes that you pay less if you agree to throw away “basic consumer freedoms”, meaning your right to privacy. There are credit rating agencys which company’s pay to get a credit score. If you never applied for or had credit, that score is zero, and your chances of getting mortgage, a loan, rental accomodation are the same, zero. The credit rating agencys collect information from many sources, and the computer jargon “garbage in, garbage out” applies. You have no control over the input to your file. I tried in to get a copy of my report despite being told I had a right to read and review it I had to get my lawyer involved. These agency’s computers track of every access, when and by whom. It contained information gathered from, amongst other questionable sources, a convicted fraudster, also a bank teller was applying for bank credit, prying into my financial situation for years, passing it on to her husband and who else? A corporation I was working for used it to determine which employees were more liable to steal. I know of which I write, and it is it documented. A few years ago I applied for a mortgage to buy a condominium, to be told “you have a bad credit rating”, despite my dealing with the same bank manager for years. He was surprised and showed me the report on his computer screen, That manager knew and trusted me or I would never have known about a credit agency or a credit score. Consumers used to have to give reference(s) when buying on credit, local people with whom they did business, time consuming a costly, now paying an annual fee gets these reports at the click of a mouse. The downside of this is you no longer have any personal privacy, anyone with access can have a peek at your life up to the last time you visited John Crapper, this includes bank employees, tellers. The Newfoundlanders and Labradorians the writer mentions have good reasons for legislating consumer privacy protection. Dan MacInnis Bframpton Ontario.

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  • Username
    Allan king
    - January 24, 2013 at 04:43:37

    This is just plain wrong. How can credit have anything to do with buying insurance? Not everyone with bad credit is completly their fault. With the econmy the way it is , some people fond themselfs in bad situations. Now another kick to someone who is already down is not right. If an insurance company wants to give a discount to someone with good credit go ahead. If you walk in the door and want to pay for your insurance up front how could credit even factor in. Just another scam to get more money from insurance companys.

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